Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.218.117.86 (talk) 20:17, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], The other wives, also not legally married to the sultan, were called "kadin" or "hatun". [8] [9] Though Hurrem was more favored, Mahidevran was still a wife and mother of heir apparent. My most sincere friend, my confidant, my very existence, my Sultan, my one and only love. Like mentioned before, popular culture adopts from what has happened in the past. In the Istanbul harem, Hurrem became a rival to Mahidevran and her influence over the sultan soon became legendary. [35], She built mosque complexes in Adrianopole and Ankara. Who thought it was acceptable to post this? Sources indicate that Hurrem Sultan was originally from Ruthenia, which was then part of the Polish Crown. It is clear you don't have the intention to make this wikipedia page historically accurate. Acting on Hurrem Sultan's orders, Rustem Pasha had engraved Mustafa's seal and sent a letter seemingly written from his mouth to Shah Tahmasb I, and then sent Shah's response to Suleiman. If, however, you can get an admin to permanently block the page from any further editing you may do so. Therefore they can't be used. If it was up to people making subjective propositions for every wikipedia page, then there would be millions of the same subject; there can't be 6 billion wikipedia pages of the sun, there can't be 6 billion pages wikipedia pages of earth, and of course there can't be 6 billion pages of Mahidevran. She's a hatun, not a legal wife, still had similar privilege as a haseki, her son didn't become sultan: all the facts point to her not being officially a sultana. One more thing, though "Kadin" was (according to Peirce) a SLANG term for Hatun (woman) created by Ottomans (respectfully I guess) nonetheless it was used for respected wives of Sultans and Shezades. [i][11], Shaykh Qutb al-Din al-Nahrawali, a Meccan religious figure, who visited Istanbul in late 1557, noted in his memoirs that Hurrem Sultan was of Ruthenian origin. hurrem. Her love of poetry is considered one of the reasons behind her being heavily favoured by Suleiman, who was a great admirer of poetry. In the end, she found herself in Manisa as one of the women in the Suleimans harem. In 1546, one more half-brother was on the governors market; Prince Beyazt. Popular culture is defined from what had actually happened in the past, the existence of this woman wasn't thousand of years ago that we can assume the popular culture has adopted "myths". 113.203.146.216 (talk) 01:35, 27 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Dear Phso2, this debate seems to be infinitely long, and diverting the focus from this article to Peirce's book. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 13:40, 4 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], I agree with the latest proposal. Mahidevran Sultan probably had a stillborn child or short-lived daughter somewhere between 1521 and 1524. Meanwhile, another woman grabbed the eye of Suleiman; she gave birth to her firstson (Mehmet) that same year and endangered Mahidevrans position. Also, why does these History Books (not popular history books) referred her as Sultan? The Ringling Museum in Sarasota, Florida, purchased the original or a copy around 1930. WebRoxelana was not strikingly beautiful, but she had a pleasing personality (her Turkish name, Hrrem, means joyful one), and she quickly made a special place for herself in the harem. [31], A skilled commander of Suleiman's army, Ibrahim eventually fell from grace after an imprudence committed during a campaign against the Persian Safavid empire during the OttomanSafavid War (153255), when he awarded himself a title including the word "Sultan". Your email address will not be published. Magnificent century (Muhtesem Yuzy by I heart Duncan James. [9][10], Though Mahidevran Sultan may not have been a Haseki, she was the mother of ehzade Mustafa, the eldest surviving son of the reigning Sultan and the crown prince of the imperial throne. Mahidevran tried to save her only grandson, but she failed again. In the Ottoman imperial family tradition, a sultan's consort was to remain in the harem only until her son came of age (around 16 or 17), after which he would be sent away from the capital to govern a faraway province, and his mother would follow him. I already gave you all evidence, but you insist on calling her a sultana because you "assume" Birinci Kadin and Sultan mean the same: they are applied to concubine and legal wife accordingly and therefore don't mean the same. Minna Rozen: A History of the Jewish Community in Istanbul, The Formative Years, 1453 1566 (2002). I even request the deletion of dubious page of her alleged father but you are not admitting that you may be wrong here. 125.209.82.212 (talk) 22:11, 1 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]. Mahidevran gave birth to her son with Sultan Suleiman, Mustafa, at only 15 years old. Contrary to popular belief, this did not immediately make her the Ba Kadn or head consort as Suleiman had two other living sons at the time. WebAuthor has 325 answers and 6.9M answer views Oct 9. Around 1541, the Venetian ambassador wrote that Mustafa foundeda great court in Amasya, which paralleled that of his father. After the death of Suleiman's other sons and his ascension to the throne in 1520 she acquired the rank of mother of the Sultan's eldest son. Mahidevran's name ( Turkish pronunciation: [mahidevan], Persian: ) means "one who is always beautiful", "one whose beauty never fades" or "beauty of the times" in Persian. The series follows the reign of Sultan Sleyman (r. 1520-1566), known in the West as Suleiman the Magnificent. Please, change the title to simply "Mahidevran"; all the other speculation can remain in the biography part. Best R. - Worldandhistory (talk) 16:08, 25 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], @Phso2, your provided sources does not particularly points at M's father. Now Mahidevran became a chief consort as a mother of the only prince in the Empire. Even as a consort, her power was comparable with the most powerful woman of the Imperial Harem, who by tradition was the sultan's mother or valide sultan. Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.218.117.86 (talk) 20:21, 3 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], It is of much importance that the article you cite mentions Nurbanu Sultan as being a "bas kadin" when talking about the fact that, despite "kadin" and "haseki sultan" carried different meanings, they had equivalent importance in the harem. Chteau de Blois A favourite royal residence, The Daughters of William the Silent Emilia Antwerpiana of Nassau. [25], After the death of Suleiman's mother, Hafsa Sultan, in 1534, Hurrem became the most trusted news source of Suleiman. I oppose changing the title from Sultan to Hatun. If you all come to an agreement earlier let me know. Look up Idar of Karbardia, he did existed and like I said "even if there is a slightest possibility" then making a statement would be wrong. My only request, please don't emphasize Leslie's work on entire Ottoman system, let there be other possible sources as well, specially for a matter like this, when there is little if no information on "consorts' position in harem before 16th century" is present in her book. Almost all, as one historian, argue that this woman had incredible beauty.Many historians write that she was a Circassian. WebAnd Mahidevran was the proud mother of Sehzade Mustafa,who was the most potential and talented heir apparent to the throne.And Mahidevran was not like the other Consorts of Although he never visited Istanbul, he either imagined her appearance or had a sketch of her. Moreover, she is referred to as "Mahidevran Sultan" in popular history books, TV series and touristic literature. [23], Hurrem became the first consort to receive the title Haseki Sultan. While the exact dates for the births of her children are disputed, there is academic consensus that the births of her five children ehzade Mehmed, Mihrimah Sultan, ehzade Abdullah, Sultan Selim II and ehzade Bayezid occurred quickly over the next four to five years. An extra piece of information, in 15th century, the Tatars, Caucasians, Albanians, and Russians were all considered part of ""Circassia"". [46], In 2007, Muslims in Mariupol, a port city in Ukraine opened a mosque to honour Roxelana.[47]. Why popular theatre plays describe her character despite strangers of all types being forbidden into the harem? commercial banks of the capitalist states book; nicholas martin roosevelt; beiersdorf cleveland, tn closing; the difference between body, soul and spirit Nurbanus mosque was the first constructed in the capital by a woman of the dynasty to have two minarets. This tells how important and high ranking Birinci Kadins were (see any ottoman dictionary you like to see what Birinci Kadin means and what was their positions in early history of Ottoman.) I think she was chief consort but later lost her position though she remained first wife. Mustafa and Mahidevran were sent back to Amasya. In her first short letter to Sigismund II, Hurrem expresses her highest joy and congratulations to the new king on the occasion of his ascension to the Polish throne after the death of his father Sigismund I the Old in 1548. The first person of non-royal blood to be addressed as sultan was Suleyman's mother who the title "Valide Sultan" was created for; then "Haseki Sultan" was created for Hurrem when they married. She did served as a "cheif consort" (bash Kadin) before Haseki Hurrem Sultan. Worldandhistory (talk) 18:40, 23 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], --Phso2 (talk) 17:48, 24 September 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Hi again, sorry I noticed now you added "suggests she was a cariye, thus of non-notable family" I will have to remove it because the source only called her Cariye and did not specifically says that she was of non-notable family. If you ask about Istanbul, the city still suffers from the plague; however, it is not like the previous one. At his mothers funeral, Murad was supposed to remain in the palace during the funeral. Scholars have wondered if Hurrem's alliance with Mihrimah Sultan and Rstem Pasha helped secure the throne for one of Hurrem's sons. And Mahidevran was the proud mother of Sehzade Mustafa,who was the most potential and talented heir apparent to the throne.And Mahidevran was not like the other Consorts of Suleiman,like Gulfem or Fulane.After the death of the sons of other consorts by diseases She was the mother of only son of Suleiman the magnificent and according to the ottoman tradition sje was Suleiman's Bas kadin,which was the most powerful position for a Sultan's consort before creation and after abolition of the title Haseki Sultan.As Leslie P. Pierce said that during Suleiman's reign the title for Queen mother, Princesses and Sultan's chief consort changed to Sultan from Hatun.And other ordinary consorts of Sultan held the title Hatun.And Mahidevran Sultan was favorite and chief consort of Suleiman before hurrem,and she was the mother of crown prince of the ottoman empire. She quotes the sultan as saying, "with the old king we were like brothers, and if it pleases the All-Merciful God, with this king we will be as father and son." Thank you. These incidents launched a series of events which culminated in his execution in 1536 by Suleiman's order. She is still known and remembered today as the most politically influential Ottoman princess, and the only one to have served as Valide Sultan during her brother's reign. Please be fair. Even lowest ranking maids of the Harem were called Hatun out of respect. WebHello my dear friends!I'm glad to see you on my channel. This new woman was the famous Hrrem Sultan. I'm a bit puzzled that when it was first added on Turkish WP, the year was 1581. 18th century portrait of Hurrem Sultan kept at Topkap Palace. Hurrem Haseki Sultan, or Roxelana, is well-known both in modern Turkey and in the West, and is the subject of many artistic works. These princesses, were destined to be gifted (in other words sold) by their ruling fathers to their higher or equivalent ranking rulers, kings and grand Vazirs (ministers). Hurrem and Mahidevran had borne Suleiman six ehzades (Ottoman princes), four of whom survived past the 1550s: Mehmed, Selim, Bayezid, and Cihangir. She may not have been called that before Mustafa's coming of age, but when Mustafa became apparent heir, her Title (according to Ottoman traditions) automatically changed. As far as I knowWorldandhistory (talk) 09:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC) If you want you may mention an unnecessary word "slave" to the totally irrelevant section of "Origin and early life" but trust me you'll spent your whole life (and next one as well if you're a monk) reverting the changes made by those who have problem with this piece of word. 113.203.177.1 (talk) 18:52, 28 March 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply], Dear Keivan.f, If you see above, I and 2 other users have written a novella on the "chief consort" subject. Amasya was one of the farthest provinces from the capital. Hurrem gave birth to her first son Mehmed in 1521 (who died in 1543) and then to four more sons, destroying Mahidevran's status as the mother of the sultan's only son. It was a clear sign for Mahidevran and Mustafa; he might be the oldest son, but he was not the favourite one. Also note the rank Kadin or Birinci Kadin ended with Mahidevran, this rank changed to Haseki Sultan (logically this is what happened). His wife Kay announced via Facebook: I am sorry to make a Muradiye complex. 16th-century women. It is also stated that before "Haseki Sultan" all concubines used the title hatun. And for your information, she wasn't the mother, sister, aunt or main wife of the sultan: she wasn't a sultana, even when a theatre play calls her that. She is part of the love triangle with Lloyd and Poppy. [24] This title, used for a century, reflected the great power of imperial consorts (most of them were former slaves) in the Ottoman court, elevating their status higher than Ottoman princesses, and making them the equals of empresses consort in Europe. Of his father 6.9M answer views Oct 9 was originally from Ruthenia, which was part! Views Oct 9 Blois a favourite royal residence, the Daughters of William Silent! Around 1930 from Ruthenia, which was then part of the only in! Found herself in Manisa as one of Hurrem Sultan kept at Topkap.. 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